A while ago I wrote a post about dating in Kiev, which was systematic and detailed, but it’s apparent many people miss the point about the whole thing.

Recently a guy posted a series of long comments here on the blog, which I would like to share with you, just in case you too are searching for the information about Kiev dating and arrived to this site by chance.

WARNING: If you are on a dating site talking to a girl from Kiev (or another Ukrainian city, for this matter), read this post till the end! It will save you an unmeasurable amount of grief and shame.

A true-life story about fake dating in Kiev

Yes! The point is that there are pseudo-dating sites working in pay-per-letter scheme that rip off unsuspecting American men, charging them thousands of dollars for falsified correspondence from women who presumably reside in Ukrainians cities like Kiev, Odessa, and so on.

The scam is so well-organized that it may appear real, fooling even educated, intelligent men.

Even when these men encounter the heart of the scam — the woman of their dreams — in blood and flesh, they still cannot figure out they are being duped!

How is this possible?

Read the account of a Psychotherapist, marriage-family therapist from California, USA, who is a “Behavioral Scientist/Darwinist”.

If you could think of a man who is better qualified to figure out scammers, you’d be hard pressed to find one.

Yet, he was scammed in Kiev big deal! (And still didn’t catch that he was. Moreover, he went on dates with another woman, while in Kiev! Of course, it was still the same scam.)

So, if you have fallen a victim of these fraudsters, don’t feel ashamed; they have been perfecting their act for over a decade, the whole play is nearly flawless, unless you understand what is really going on with your Kiev, Odessa, or Kharkiv date from a PPL (pay-per-letter) site. This guy was still in Kiev when posting these comments; he didn’t have time to process what happened to him; it’s real and raw, as you can see.

Here is his exact account, word to word, including the punctuation and WRITING IN ALL CAPS.

The initial text of this post appears as a comment here.

“Coming to Kiev via a dating site”

Yes, coming to Kiev via a dating site, 100 hours of “intimate” Virtual communication, then the “meeting”!

I extended my hand in a jokingly manner to “pat” her on the head, stating, “Wow, you ARE REAL”, and she jerked her head away.

The Dating site “interpreter” stated that it was “frowned” upon to show “affection” in public.

We had a great evening, was told with lots of smiles and laughs that I was entertaining, funny, and actually asked for another date.

I reached to hold her hand and again, PULLED back like I was a leper.

I’m actually a widower, but also a Psychotherapist, marriage-family therapist from California, and was taken back like I was some weird alien.

After the 3rd date I had to say NO, Thank-You, I don’t not only NOT want another “great” date, but I’d blow up in million pieces of “love dust”, not ANY intimate, affectionate, affinity shown exchanges was more like TORTURE.

Whose Rules, some man-made restrictive, non-natural means of establishing a chemistry-based/hormonal expressions was a TOTAL turn off, had to just say “I QUIT”.

Being HELD back of normal laws of attraction for some other reason that ‘NOT WANTING TO” is repressive.

 As you stated above, possibly 8 dates to hold hands or even a good night kiss? Wow, like having an ice cream cone melting in your hand and being told you can’t lick it! No fair and not for this Westerns “Courting” practice, and would hate to succumb to such dating practice as “normal”.

Yeah, one gal actually told me how much she enjoyed me, but expect 30 days before it would be allowed to hold hands or kiss, “But I’ll meet you for dinner, take YOU shopping, etc.”!

After so many weeks of Internet messaging, I knew she was not a Fake, but the CULTURE barrier was what was NOT indicated in ANY conversations.

The language barrier was a problem also, as GOOD English was “FAIR”, and them speaking “FAIR” English was POOR.

Translator told me that she only understood me no more than 20-30% of what I said, and she was “FAIR”, and the other gal who was “GOOD” maybe got 50%, as we had to use Google Translate to communicate, as har, WE didn’t NEED a translator because of her GOOD language skill. WAY overstated.

Talk MORE of courting scene, as the Ukrainian conservatism, showing any minor signs of intimacy is treated not only poorly but is more of a “rejection” reaction for a normal Male that is attracted to a potential Mate.

Very frustrated and UNnatural, throw some raw meat into a Lion’s gage and tell him not to eat it, wait for 8 more dinner bells! ARRRR!

Was it fake or real? It was FAKE.

My response

Clearly, the guy was scammed by a PPL pseudo-dating site, and the women had to show their faces on “dates” in Kiev, in order to justify all the previous billing for months of communication he paid for.

These Kiev scammers are obviously good at what they do, since he didn’t even catch up on the fact that he was talking to the ‘translator’ all the time when he communicated distantly online, not to the ‘girl of his dreams’ he so desperately wanted to pat. That’s how these setups operate.

By the way, the article 20 tips for dating in Kiev that he commended on had all the links to the information about the PPL scams!

Talk about attention spans.

I don’t want to think he is not suitable for the profession he had chosen for himself (psychotherapist, marriage and family councillor), but something is definitely missing here.

So, I told him in my response that he was scammed, and missed the links in the actual post that would explain to him what really happened, and this is what I got back.

His response

(Edited for the purposes of brevity)

As a fairly successful Marriage-Family therapist, I FIXED broken relationships, already established ones. There are logical, but not used often enough through my fellow “Fixers”, ways for salvaging relationships but with ONLY WILLINGNESS and Wanting To by both.

But I haven’t been on any NEW courting/dating venture in decades, as I mentioned, I am a widower, my SOULMATE, wife died suddenly of cancer going on 4 years now. I KNEW her 10 years before we got married, so when WE became aware of our attraction, there was NO real introductory phase.

So yes, Naive, I am on how to BUILD from ZERO a meaningful relationship is as foreign as being now in Kiev and FEELING for the 1st time, a Cultural Shock that I’d never witnessed before. I practice living in the Here and NOW, where Honesty, Openness and being THOROUGH are the guidelines to follow 100%.

 One of the reasons to just jump on plane and come is because of the realization as I wrote in first instance, MEETING is Reality, HERE and NOW, verses Virtual $ Reality of the Internet “operation”.

I’ve SAVED money by stopping writing and opening letters and paying for pictures back and forth.

 So BEING HERE and facing the NEW “courting” (No touching, inappropriate, frowned upon, etc.) rules/doctrines was NEVER part of the equation, as being a California/Hawaiian bred progressive person I’d never been exposed to such a different culture as this one was.

I’d also been around the International Tourist Industry too, owned a small oceanfront hotel, etc., and had large percentage of Europeans, but noticing NOW more than EVER, Western Europeans and N. Americans were similar, but WE (other hotels, restaurants, etc.) did NOT have but FEW Eastern Europeans.

I probably have had 5,000 guests as I started a New Hotel on Pacific Coast of Nicaragua, and around 60% from N. America and 40% Europe. But thinking about it further, of the approximate 2000 Europeans, I have had 3 Russians and ZERO Ukrainians.

I’ve had more people from Chad or Nepal than Eastern Europe and until actually HERE had NO idea how different it is here, NO comprehension.

I did research, but obviously not enough, and now when I came face to face with this DIFFERENCE I ended up frustrated enough to dig further and thus, a-HA, found YOUR site.

Did NOT expect to wake up on another PLANET!

I’m used to more open, honest and thorough communication, the SAME tools I use to FIX bad relationships, but this “Culture” (even taxi cab drivers, landlords of apartments, trying to talk to someone on the street, etc.) difference was beyond any anticipatory difference I knew would be apparent but NOT to this extent.

 Sorry, I am a Behavioral Scientist/Darwinist/Atheist and believe in Evolutionary principals and Laws of Attraction and the NEED of intimacy, whereas Touching is as natural and necessary (see: Google infants that lack touching/physical contact with mother (Bonding)/ and the maladaptation to socializing and intimacy issues the child has latter in life, and quickly!).

Trust issues, denial of natural instincts. No wonder the great gap in Ukraine in Equality (and YES, I’ve read a LOT about those issues, the “why” Eastern Europeans seek Westerners).

 So, yes, I NEED help in confronting this issue of intimacy, and do NOT want to succumb, and will NOT succumb to being scammed by any woman whose “learned behavior” cannot change (her reasoning) quickly, like showing the earth is ROUND to someone who thinks it’s flat. Show, inform, prove and if still in denial, “QUIT”, don’t beat my head against the wall.

 Is there ANY advice to give ME and other Zombies for cutting the LOSSES, not get the continuous scamming or being led around with a leash. Is there any hope of piercing the vail, or is it just a losing proposition, do THEIR way? I want it MY way or the Highway (I do have something to offer, a LOT, including affection, intimacy, affinity, ALL NATURAL HUMAN NEEDS). C

Can I be stubborn enough, do anything in your opinion to be more successful in not wasting my time much less money?

I would love to hear your feedback, and know I might be a little confusing and rambled, but I still am in a somewhat SHOCKED stage.

Time waits for NO-One (in fact my brother just emailed me from Hawaii, a 1/2 world apart to tell me our Step-Mother just had a heart attack yesterday and died!

I was the best man at our Dad’s wedding, and just hours ago heard a LOVED ONE just DIED. The serenity prayer comes to mind, with THIS situation and what to tell my little sister (her mom) Grant me the Serenity to Accept what I cannot change/control, and the Courage to change the things I CAN change/control, and the WISDOM to KNOW the difference. Yes, TIME waits for No-One, and so goes with dating all these Women that I KNOW that want a REAL long term relationship, but can’t have it THEIR way, $300-$400 a month is not living, and scamming isn’t much of a lifestyle.

 So I await your Feedback, maybe dig deeper in the Knowledge tank? “Wisdom to Know the Difference”, give up or be a bull-terrier?

What could I say?

I could only say I was sorry for his loss and told him that if he wanted the scams to stop, to go to TV programs like Dr Phil and tell his story, so that other people won’t be scammed like this.

But he still didn’t want to understand what he wasn’t actually dating a Ukrainian women when he was in Kiev as the guest of the marriage agency! It wasn’t “dating”, it was a scam.

There wasn’t and couldn’t be anything “natural” about it, whether in Kiev, Poltava, or any other place. It was a set up, carefully planned and executed, and everyone — taxi drivers, apartment owners, translators, the agency — were on the take, knowing full well they were defrauding a foreign man for money.

• Was it one of the respectable romance tour companies like A Foreign Affair, which is, too, running pay per letter scheme through agents?
• Or was it the founding fathers of the PPL, Anastasia?
• Or one of the sleazy late adopters of the pay-per-letter scheme that barely bother to appear legitimate?

There are too many of them to name, although there is the list of PPL sites, if you wish to have a look.

I guess, the tip about not getting involved with PPL sites should have been #1, so that people with a limited attention span don’t miss it?

What do you think of this whole story? Comment below!

Read also:

• Letters of despair: Victims of pay per letter (PPL) dating scams demand action
• PPL Ukrainian mail order bride scam on Dr Phil TV show
• How PPL sites recruit brides
• Difference between dating sites and marriage agencies